The Patrick Buchanan article is interesting. As far as the peace link suggesting that peace means no war... peace comes from security and being able to defend against enemies and threats. Refusing to fight will not bring peace, it will bring defeat.
You may have noticed that the "Information Clearing House" article has been removed:
"Some readers suggest Jessie Macbeth, may not be as he portrays himself. Many have cast doubt as to the validity of his experiences."
"Iraq Veterans Against the War recently learned of a video interview with Jesse MacBeth that directs viewers to IVAW’s website and phone number. IVAW was not made aware of the creation of this video program and our input on it was never sought by its producers. Jesse MacBeth is not a spokesperson for IVAW and any claims made by MacBeth about his service have not been verified. We are currently investigating these claims and will have a full statement pending its resolution."
Typical. Information Clearing House is propaganda, and their agenda is plainly stated HERE
...One person's effort to correct the distorted perceptions provided by commercial media...
...This web site grew out of my personal frustration and anger at the failure of traditional commercial media to inform the American public, especially as it relates to US foreign policy...
...An effort to provide more depth and understanding to current issues...
While it may be possible that MacBeth's account about his service isn't true, his is just one of many similar accounts by servicemen and women who have been courageous enough to speak out (I say courageous because they are inevitably faced with scorn, smear campaigns and isolation as a consequence, although all of that is - fortunately - changing) . I seriously doubt that all the accounts that have been circulating can be fabrications.
Furthermore, we now have the Haditha massacre, which wouldn't have seen the light of day had it not been independently reported and verified. How many other Haditha's were there? Only History will tell. Add to that the continuing horror stories emanating from Abu Graib. I could go on and on ...
However, I am not going to fill your blog up with the countless tragedies that this needless war of choice has visited upon Iraq, the US and the Middle East. And please don't tell me that rubbish about collateral damage being inevitable and that the terrorists have killed much more than US forces have. The latter is an especially poor excuse for an illegal war of choice that was supposedly carried out to free a country from tyranny.
One final word about “propaganda”. The dictionary defines it as The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. I have no problem with that. We all tend to see the world through “colored eyeglasses” according to our beliefs and prejudices. I have mine and you have yours. However, I am also an academic scientist, which means that I have to study all sides of an argument. Many people just read the writings of those they tend to agree with. I read and give serious consideration to your sources and expect you to do the same to mine (and I see that you have and urge you to continue doing so). We each will inevitably draw our own conclusions and in the end that is all we can expect to achieve. However, I think you will find it hard to dismiss this as propaganda.
The MAJORITY of statements from military personnel in Iraq say similar things: they are making a difference, they believe in the mission, it needs to be completed, ect.
It was then that Siddique noticed the corpses of two boys aged about 12 lying in the pile on the ground.
“Each had a piece of knotted green cloth tied around his neck and I could see they’d been strangled,” the doctor said. He also noticed round holes that were slightly inflamed in several parts of their body, a sign that they had been tortured with electric drills before being killed. “Even their eyes had been drilled and only hollow sockets remained,” he said.
“Did those children scream in pain? Did the torturers laugh as they drilled? If we ever had a just cause as a country occupied by foreigners, it was lost the moment the resistance started beheading and drilling human beings. No matter how noble their cause when it began, they have now reached a dead end.”
...it was lost the moment the resistance started beheading and drilling human beings.
To imply that the Iraqi resistance is a single or unified entity is indeed a facile (not to say foolish) argument. The situation is much more complicated than the simple minded President of the US would have you believe. According to Bruce Hoffman of the Rand Corporation:
Unlike a “classical guerrilla-type campaign,” the Iraq insurgency has no center of gravity. There appears to be no clear leader (or leadership); no attempt to seize and actually hold territory; and no single, defined, or unifying ideology. Most important, there is no identifiable organization. (...) Rather, what we find in Iraq is the closest manifestation yet of netwar, (...) It is a situation where secular Ba’athists and other Former Regime Elements increasingly cooperate with religious extremist foreign jihadists along with domestic (Iraqi) jihadists. (...) In this loose, ambiguous, and constantly shifting environment, constellations of cells or collections of individuals gravitate toward one another to carry out armed attacks, exchange intelligence, trade weapons, or engage in joint training and then disperse at times never to operate together again.
As for the alleged positive statements from a majority of military personnel: What do you expect them to say? If they don't tow the line they become pariahs or risk being dishonorably discharged! That is precisely why I said those who spoke out were courageous since did so despite the consequences!
...it was lost the moment the resistance started beheading and drilling human beings. To imply that the Iraqi resistance is a single or unified entity is indeed a facile (not to say foolish) argument. The situation is much more complicated than the simple minded President of the US would have you believe.
Actually, that statement was made by Hala Jaber in Baghdad.
It is true that the insurgency is a mix of different groups. In 2005 the BBC News website looked at the major groups: Who are the insurgents in Iraq?
This video gives interesting insight into the insurgency: Captured Iraqi Terrorist Ramzi Hashem Abed. This was aired on Al-Fayhaa TV on August 12, and Al-Iraqiya TV on August 7, 2005.
There have been no dishonorable discharges of military personnel resulting from statements given? And the fact is the the overwhelming majority of statements given show a belief in and a support for the mission in Iraq. They speak openly and candidly, and some of course voice opinions against the war in Iraq, but most are positive.
I am not an expert on the Middle East, so I know when to cede the stage to someone who is. Although you will undoubtedly disagree with his views, Fawaz A. Gerges undeniably has the authority to write about Middle Eastern (and particularly Islamic-Western relations).
9 comments:
I always thought TRUTH (in capitals) stood for reason over brute force. May PEACE be with you.
Perhaps you might want to take a look at THIS.
The Patrick Buchanan article is interesting. As far as the peace link suggesting that peace means no war... peace comes from security and being able to defend against enemies and threats. Refusing to fight will not bring peace, it will bring defeat.
You may have noticed that the "Information Clearing House" article has been removed:
"Some readers suggest Jessie Macbeth, may not be as he portrays himself. Many have cast doubt as to the validity of his experiences."
"Iraq Veterans Against the War recently learned of a video interview with Jesse MacBeth that directs viewers to IVAW’s website and phone number. IVAW was not made aware of the creation of this video program and our input on it was never sought by its producers. Jesse MacBeth is not a spokesperson for IVAW and any claims made by MacBeth about his service have not been verified. We are currently investigating these claims and will have a full statement pending its resolution."
Typical. Information Clearing House is propaganda, and their agenda is plainly stated HERE
...One person's effort to correct the distorted perceptions provided by commercial media...
...This web site grew out of my personal frustration and anger at the failure of traditional commercial media to inform the American public, especially as it relates to US foreign policy...
...An effort to provide more depth and understanding to current issues...
Perhaps you might want to take a look at THIS
While it may be possible that MacBeth's account about his service isn't true, his is just one of many similar accounts by servicemen and women who have been courageous enough to speak out (I say courageous because they are inevitably faced with scorn, smear campaigns and isolation as a consequence, although all of that is - fortunately - changing) . I seriously doubt that all the accounts that have been circulating can be fabrications.
Furthermore, we now have the Haditha massacre, which wouldn't have seen the light of day had it not been independently reported and verified. How many other Haditha's were there? Only History will tell. Add to that the continuing horror stories emanating from Abu Graib. I could go on and on ...
However, I am not going to fill your blog up with the countless tragedies that this needless war of choice has visited upon Iraq, the US and the Middle East. And please don't tell me that rubbish about collateral damage being inevitable and that the terrorists have killed much more than US forces have. The latter is an especially poor excuse for an illegal war of choice that was supposedly carried out to free a country from tyranny.
One final word about “propaganda”. The dictionary defines it as
The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
I have no problem with that. We all tend to see the world through “colored eyeglasses” according to our beliefs and prejudices. I have mine and you have yours. However, I am also an academic scientist, which means that I have to study all sides of an argument. Many people just read the writings of those they tend to agree with. I read and give serious consideration to your sources and expect you to do the same to mine (and I see that you have and urge you to continue doing so). We each will inevitably draw our own conclusions and in the end that is all we can expect to achieve. However, I think you will find it hard to dismiss this as propaganda.
The MAJORITY of statements from military personnel in Iraq say similar things: they are making a difference, they believe in the mission, it needs to be completed, ect.
Speaking of massacres:
Bombers defy security to hit Iraq
Insurgent blasts kill at least 27 in Iraq
Iraq attacks kill 43
Insurgents Kill 31 People in Series of Attacks in Iraq
and speaking of horrors:
Horror show reveals Iraq’s descent
A morgue’s grim scenes testify to a disintegrating nation, says Hala Jaber in Baghdad
It was then that Siddique noticed the corpses of two boys aged about 12 lying in the pile on the ground.
“Each had a piece of knotted green cloth tied around his neck and I could see they’d been strangled,” the doctor said. He also noticed round holes that were slightly inflamed in several parts of their body, a sign that they had been tortured with electric drills before being killed. “Even their eyes had been drilled and only hollow sockets remained,” he said.
“Did those children scream in pain? Did the torturers laugh as they drilled? If we ever had a just cause as a country occupied by foreigners, it was lost the moment the resistance started beheading and drilling human beings. No matter how noble their cause when it began, they have now reached a dead end.”
...it was lost the moment the resistance started beheading and drilling human beings.
To imply that the Iraqi resistance is a single or unified entity is indeed a facile (not to say foolish) argument. The situation is much more complicated than the simple minded President of the US would have you believe. According to Bruce Hoffman of the Rand Corporation:
Unlike a “classical guerrilla-type campaign,” the Iraq insurgency has no center of gravity. There appears to be no clear leader (or leadership); no attempt to seize and actually hold territory; and no single, defined, or unifying ideology. Most important, there is no identifiable organization. (...) Rather, what we find in Iraq is the closest manifestation yet of netwar, (...) It is a situation where secular Ba’athists and other Former Regime Elements increasingly cooperate with religious extremist foreign jihadists along with domestic (Iraqi) jihadists. (...) In this loose, ambiguous, and constantly shifting environment, constellations of cells or collections of individuals gravitate toward one another to carry out armed attacks, exchange intelligence, trade weapons, or engage in joint training and then disperse at times never to operate together again.
As for the alleged positive statements from a majority of military personnel: What do you expect them to say? If they don't tow the line they become pariahs or risk being dishonorably discharged! That is precisely why I said those who spoke out were courageous since did so despite the consequences!
...it was lost the moment the resistance started beheading and drilling human beings.
To imply that the Iraqi resistance is a single or unified entity is indeed a facile (not to say foolish) argument. The situation is much more complicated than the simple minded President of the US would have you believe.
Actually, that statement was made by Hala Jaber in Baghdad.
It is true that the insurgency is a mix of different groups. In 2005 the BBC News website looked at the major groups: Who are the insurgents in Iraq?
This video gives interesting insight into the insurgency: Captured Iraqi Terrorist Ramzi Hashem Abed. This was aired on Al-Fayhaa TV on August 12, and Al-Iraqiya TV on August 7, 2005.
There have been no dishonorable discharges of military personnel resulting from statements given? And the fact is the the overwhelming majority of statements given show a belief in and a support for the mission in Iraq. They speak openly and candidly, and some of course voice opinions against the war in Iraq, but most are positive.
insight into the insurgency ??
I am not an expert on the Middle East, so I know when to cede the stage to someone who is. Although you will undoubtedly disagree with his views, Fawaz A. Gerges undeniably has the authority to write about Middle Eastern (and particularly Islamic-Western relations).
My parting wisdom to you consists of a recommendation that you read his book The Far Enemy: Why Jihad Went Global.
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